🖐 Federal Judge Says Poker Is Not Gambling

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they felt well enough to be more actively bored they turned to dice or poker. During all the poker games I had kibitzed in basic training—not much in the 97th.


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Last week, a federal judge in Brooklyn of staten island poker games Staten Island man who ran poker games in the back room of a warehouse, on the grounds that poker is a game of skill, not chance -- and hence, such games cannot be prosecuted under federal laws prohibiting illegal gambling businesses.
It's just the latest sally in the ongoing debate over poker that's been raging for more than 150 years.
And it of by the Justice Department that 1962's Wire Act applied only to sports betting, not poker.
This is kind of ironic, since the Justice Department also in the spring of 2011, charging the men behind the three most popular online sites with fraud and money laundering.
Clearly, the issue is far from resolved, but John Pappas, executive director of the Poker Player's Alliance, is encouraged by the latest staten island poker games by Judge Jack B.
The alliance is dedicated to decriminalizing poker.
Via Chemjobber on Twitter, I learned of a by German researchers concluding that winning at poker is basically all about luck.
They recruited 300 poker players, half self-defined "experts" and half "average," sat them down at tables of six, evenly divided between expert and average players, and then had them all play 60 hands of Texas Hold 'Em.
Oh, and they fixed the deals, the better to measure the effects of luck.
Their conclusion, : "Luck, rather than skill, was key in determining final balance, with experts taking no more, on average, than novices.
Experts did play differently, on various measures, and seemed better able to cope with bad luck, losing less; but they also won less when given good cards.
A 2008 study concluded that poker is a skill -- students who received link basic pointers performed better while playing 1000 hands of poker than those who received no training at all.
Still other studies support the German conclusion.
Who are we to believe?
Neuroskeptic rightly points out a major flaw in the 2012 study, namely, the classification of "expert" players was based on self-reports.
I would argue further that playing a mere 60 or 1000 hands of poker is an insufficient sample size, given the statistical complexities of the game.
There are please click for source cards, with more than 2.
Texas Hold 'Em uses seven cards so there are around 133 million combinations.
Plus, you know, fixing the deals really messes with those probabilities.
Compare this to the sample size of the expert witness cited by Judge Weinstein in his massive 120-page ruling.
Heeb is an economist and statistician and avid poker player who analyzed 415 million hands online of no-limit Texas Hold 'Em and found that the skill of a player "had a statistically significant effect on the amount of money won or lost.
I wrote a feature for Discover on poker-playing physicists, which included a.
Caltech physicist Sean Carroll, a.
It for good measure.
And I gathered all the material cut from the article into, which dealt explicitly with this question of whether poker is a game of chance or skill.
If poker is a game of chance, and hence gambling, why do physicists love it so much?
Physicists hate to gamble.
Then he tried to put his strategy into practice.
He lost a pile of cash playing blackjack on an ill-fated trip to Reno, and was barred from six casinos in one day for card-counting in a desperate attempt to recoup his losses.
UPDATE: For clarification, when you play poker in a casino, you are playing against the staten island poker games players -- not the house.
The casino takes a cut of the pot, but in essence, you are renting the table.
So casinos make far less money off of poker than they do off their usual pure games of chance.
They make some -- that's their business model -- but if poker weren't so enormously popular, casinos https://chakefashion.com/games/game-world-casino-arena-centar.html not host the games at all.
Vonk has always loved games, but his love for poker rests on the combination of "math skills" and "people skills," as he put it.
All you can do in blackjack or roulette is make the best possible mathematical decisions, and even then, you will still lose in the long run.
I have never been attracted to those games.
It's the fact that you play against other people that makes poker so interesting, and that makes it possible to actually be a winner at the game.
Binger said the probability and equity calculations and statistical analysis he applies give him an edge in the game.
Vonk finds that his post-game analysis of how he played specific hands benefits from his mathematical skills.
But both Vonk and Binger admit that there are also plenty of other players who really don't know much about the underlying math; they have a good feel, or instinct, for how to play the game.
After a player has played a million hands of poker, even if he does not know the math at all, he will have a decent feeling about when it is profitable to draw to a flush and when it is not.
Vonk broke down the process to a few basic questions: What cards do I have?
What range of cards do I think staten island poker games opponent has?
Given these, what is the probability I will win the hand after all cards have been dealt?
And most important: given that probability, will I make money in the long run when I pay the bet?
The best one can do, most of the time, is "make a very broad guess," he says.
The best poker players are able to use different algorithms against different opponents as the situation warrants.
The answer to delineate.
Mathematically, it depends on the number of opponents.
The probability that you will win goes down as the number of opponents goes up, because there are more ways for you to be beaten.
Some hands play well against very few opponents, while others play well against many opponents.
It all depends on the circumstances.
Against one opponent, the sixes will win 62.
Against four opponents, those odds are reversed: Jack-10 suited will win 27.
Why does this happen?
In that case, most common poker games remarkable are slightly more likely to beat Ace-7, and Ace-7 is more info to beat Jack-10 suited, but Jack-10 suited is likely to beat a game fact or of sixes.
The sixes are the best starting hand all by themselves.
For one of the latter two to win, favorable community staten island poker games must appear on the flop, turn, or river.
The only way for the Ace-7 to beat paired sixes is for either an ace or a seven to turn up -- or, less likely, for just the right combination of four cards to land on the board to make a straight or flush.
Pit those same sixes against Jack-10 suited, and the situation is reversed.
In that scenario, there are more ways for Jack-10 suited to improve.
So Jack-10 suited will usually beat a pair of sixes.
For instance, if four more suited cards come up, the Jack-10 suited will have a flush, but the Ace-7 will have a higher flush, and will win the hand.
Poker is a very complicated game, even more so once you add in player behavior during the various rounds of betting.
If determining the edge and the odds were all it took to succeed at poker, probability theory would suffice, and one could fairly deem it gambling.
If it were a purely logical game like chess, it would merely require impressive feats of calculation to determine the winning series of moves.
There may not be a single answer.
Poker is like quantum mechanics.
In chess, there is only one right move.
In poker, there is a probability distribution of right moves.
At times like that, I need to pay less attention to the math.
Note the very specific circumstances described throughout: change even one element and it might call for a different strategy.
He just insists on seeing the flop.
Now say you're dealt two aces and you each have a few thousand blinds in front of you.
The optimal strategy is probably to make a small raise, both building a pot and disguising your hand.
But with this player in the game, a much staten island poker games play is to move all in, knowing he'll call you.
The optimal strategy would still win staten island poker games money but against bad players, other strategies might win you more money.
An optimal strategy is designed to protect you against opponents who play well.
But when we can find ways to do better than optimal strategy against certain players, we do it.
Indeed, there are rare cases where game theory dictates you should fold pocket aces before the flop when playing a tournament.
In non-tournament play, the goal is not just to win the hand but to make the most money.
In a tournament, you want to outlast your opponents to win it all.
That might entail intentionally opting not to maximize your monetary gains on one specific hand to remain competitive in the tournament.
You sacrifice short-term gain to achieve the long-term goal.
I once played poker with a continue reading that included Harvey.
So when I scored with pocket aces and nothing but rags low cards of varying suits after the flop, I pushed all-in, going heads-up with Harvey.
He had pocket Queens, a strong hand -- unless one's opponent holds pocket aces.
He correctly analyzed his chances, based on my all-too-predictable style of play.
The optimal strategy can also depend on what type of poker is being played: your strategies will be different for No-Limit Texas Hold-Em, for a No-Limit tournament, a Limit Texas Hold 'Em "ring game," and different again for online poker.
The online software can analyze thousands of hands being played at the same time, and that larger sample space makes for a more accurate statistical analysis.
You can follow his exploits on Twitter: mwbinger.
The mathematicians have had a good run when it comes to analyzing poker, but the Time Lord is rather cheekily that physicists will prove to be the better poker players in the future.
No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em is such a complex system that "we cannot derive a dominant strategy in a closed form.
This is a decent strategy for two players going heads-up, but for a full table, pre-flop, "it becomes a question of which approximations to make and which models to choose for your opponents.
He also had a corollary: "Phenomenologists and astrophysicists will be better poker players than string theorists.
In poker, they're known as "bad beats.
Poker requires nerves of steel, and an emotional equilibrium click to see more Harvey, for one, admitted he does not possess.
Quite frankly, you can't.
As Dedonno and Detterman"The reason that poker appears to be a game of luck is that the reliability of any short session is low.
Luck random factors disguises the fact that poker is a game of skill.
Adapted from an from the archived Cocktail Party Physics blog.
Ferguson, Thomas, and Ferguson, Chris.
Ferguson, Thomas, and Ferguson, Chris.
Stewart Ethier and William R.
Ferguson, Thomas, Ferguson, Chris, and Garwargy, Cephas.
A Quasi-Experimental Study," Journal of Gambling Studies, Online First, August 15, 2012.
Theory of Games and Economic Behavior.
Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1944.
The views expressed are those of the author s and are not necessarily those of Scientific American.
Explore our digital archive back to 1845, including articles by more than 150 Nobel Prize winners.
Scientific American maintains a strict policy of editorial independence in reporting developments in science to our readers.
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Federal Court Says Poker Illegal Again
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According to thewhich "played a central role in the case" by advising the defense, supplying briefs, and arranging for expert testimony, this is "the first federal court decision on whether poker is a game of skill rather than gambling.
District Judge Jack Weinstein grappled with the scope of IGBA, which does not mention poker.
But was it a "gambling business"?
The government argued that state law should determine the answer, while Dicristina said Congress intended a distinct federal definition of gambling.
Finding that both interpretations were plausible, Weinstein that the "rule of lenity," which says ambiguities in the definition of a crime should be resolved in the defendant's favor, required an acquittal.
He notes that IGBA specifically mentions "pool-selling, bookmaking, maintaining slot machines, roulette wheels or dice tables, and conducting lotteries, policy, bolita or numbers games, or selling chances therein.
Poker, by contrast, is "predominately a game of skill"—a conclusion Weinstein reached based on the expert testimony and studies presented by the defense: The influence of skill on the outcome of poker games is far greater than that on the outcomes of the games enumerated in the IGBA's illustrations of gambling….
Expert poker players draw on an array of talents, including facility with numbers, knowledge of human psychology, and powers of observation and deception.
Players can use these skills to win even if chance has not dealt them the better hand.
And as the defendant's evidence demonstrates, these abilities permit the best poker players to prevail over the less-skilled players over a series of staten island poker games />Neither the text of the IGBA nor its legislative history demonstrate that Congress designed the link to cover all state gambling offenses.
Nor does the definition of staten island poker games include games, such as poker, which are predominated by skill.
The rule of lenity compels a narrow reading of the IGBA, and dismissal of defendant's conviction.
Weinstein adds that Dicristina still could be prosecuted in state court.
Although the "dominating element" test for gambling that Weinstein applied in this case is the one news online casino games free commonly used by the states, New York defines gambling as "any contest, game, gaming scheme or gaming device in which the outcome depends in a material degree upon an element of chance, notwithstanding that skill of the contestants may also be a factor therein" emphasis added.
Citing several cases in which New York courts have deemed poker to be gambling under state law, Weinstein says any argument to the contrary "has no merit.
Bennett Liebman, executive director of the Government Law Center at Albany Law School, argues that the "material degree" test is essentially the same as the "dominating element" test that prevailed before a revised New York penal code took effect in 1967.
Based on the argument accepted by Weinstein, courts should not classify poker as gambling under the latter definition.
As for federal law, Weinstein notes in passing that the Wire Act "applies only to wagering on sporting events.
But Weinstein's detailed, 120-page decision could influence how other federal statutes dealing with gambling are read.
If his colleagues find his analysis persuasive, the Poker Players Alliance may achieve its goal of carving out a special immunity for this particular game based on the skill argument.
That would be a significant achievement, although I would much prefer that the government, at the state as well as the federal level, refrain from trying to dictate the games people play.
Weinstein's decision, which anyone following the controversy over how to classify poker should find interesting, is.
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God know, I have no skill, thus limit my annual Indian Casino donation drive to just Black Jack.
Depends on the time span you are talking about.
Over the course of one 2 hour long home game, luck is quite a strong factor.
Over the course of the WSOP Main Event, luck becomes minimal.
Though similar can be said of sporting contests, such as the NCAA Tournament.
Actually luck is a heavy factor in the WSOP Main Event as shown by how few professionals win it nowadays.
Tournaments have a large luck factor.
The correct time scale is over many tournaments or many hours of table play.
Tournament poker is nothing like seeing the money that comes out of your pocket being handed across a table.
Oh yes, and have experienced it.
Plus the style of play is way more fun.
Then again when you are the skilled one table games can be very profitable.
Payed for all my beer money freshman year back in the wild west days of online poker.
No and the better amateurs are going to survive.
But when you have to beat 7000 other people your going to have to put bad beats on people many many times by the time you get to the end.
My point was that you can bad beat staten island poker games way to a win in a home game though of course over many weeks the poor player is gonna go broke in that home game click to see more />I used to work at a casino, and we had one regular who played poker for a living.
He showed up at 10 AM, and left at 4 PM Mon-Thur every week unless he was on vacation.
He never played in the tournaments, or stayed later if he was winning big, and he NEVER lost.
Also, you know how some players wear headphones and sunglasses?
The government argued that state law should determine the answer.
Vaguely defined laws are what keep prosecutors in business.
Poker is absolutely a game of skill primarily but there is no escaping the fact that there is luck involved.
You can be the best player at any table and still lose out to lucky hand, which in turn makes it gambling in my opinion.
Interesting case in my opinion, I think the real problem with making online gambling illegal is the amount of tax revenue the government would be missing.
NFL football games are gambling, because the coin toss decides who gets the ball to start each half?
I think the real problem with making online gambling and poker playing illegal is not allowing peopl eto do what they want with their own damn money.
You can be the best player at any table and still lose out to lucky hand, which in turn makes it gambling in my opinion.
And that might be casino cards only hand you loose, which makes it a game of skill in my opinion.
You can be the best player at any table and still lose out to lucky hand, which in turn makes it gambling in my opinion.
From the first paragraph: The poker room run by the defendant, Lawrence Dicristina?
The laws vary considerably from state to state.
From being able to find the fucking slot for the quarter in the slot machine to being able to distinguish between red and black on a roulette table.
Random memory: playing online poker at the fake money tables, and there was always, and I mean always, some asshole who went all-in on every hand.
They would run out of fake chips and leave the staten island poker games and some other all-in fucker would show up.
Playing for fake money is stupid.
With no risk involved nobody is going to play with the right incentives.
Even that is a huge jump up from free play.
It was a blast.
All it takes is one or two goofing around to make a play money table useless as practice.
Even games with the longest odds you cannot guarantee yourself to be a loser.
For example, playing the lottery.
But then look at poker.
Of course this just focuses on the game of luck vs.
Even more infuriating is the fact that the very same states will gladly suck up money for the lottery.
That stops being fun and starts just being about making long term money.
By far the most common live tell I have noticed playing in brick-and-mortar games over the years is that there are certain types of guys that staten island poker games talk too damn much whenever they have a monster.
As soon as they start yapping away preflop, I know right away they have the bullets.
Charles County law enforcement used shady practices to seize motorists' assets without convictions.
It would have been much worse had some parishioners not been armed.

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So I should tell you that that decision was reversed today on appeal, and poker is illegal again, so you'd better shut down your poker room and go back to trading derivatives ha ha ha.
Other than that I don't have much to say about.
The lower court's decision staten island poker games poker legal was very scholarly about how poker is predominately a game of skill, not of chance, and so is not "gambling.
The district court said, well, it's a violation of New York's gambling law, but it's not a "gambling business" under my reading of the word "gambling," because it's a game of skill, so you're free to go.
The appeals court ignores all the chance vs.
The distinction is one of formalism and good lobbying, not of logic.
Some games are illegal gambling because they're games of chance, and some games are illegal gambling even though they're games of skill.
And some games - the game of speculating in the stock market not least among them - are fine even if, as seems likely,2 they are more driven by chance than poker is.
If you try, as the district court did, to sort them out based on logic, you will end in a hopeless mess.
The trick is to recognize that the lines are arbitrary, and to know how to stay on the right side of them, or failing that, how to move them.
People who run derivatives books tend - mostly!
People who run Staten Island poker rooms tend not to.
Oh of course it's not true.
But the securitization that Mr.
Instead, it picked a bunch of tranches from previous securitizations — tranches that no one involved in this deal had to own — and fashioned a new securitization in which one set of investors bet those securities would work out and another set bet they would article source />There are two ways of thinking about the gambling question.
One is, were the parties to the trade involved out of gambling motives entertainment, chance staten island poker games make a big profitor investing motives have money that they need to transfer in timepoker texas holdem offline hedging motives have risks that they need to offset with slot car track game tradesor what?
There's a decent argument that Paulson, the protection buyer in Abacus, had gambling-ish motives; the long side is less clear and there's at least a case that the note buyer though not ACA had investment motives.
But this is contingent; it's not a feature of the security itself.
Some synthetic CDOs were created by banks to hedge their mortgage portfolios, and plenty of note buyers were just investors who wanted a few extra bps of yield versus non-synthetic trades.
There's no requirement of gambling motives, unlike in, say, poker, where everyone's there to gamble.
Err, to ply their skill.
Did the CDS liquidity provided by please click for source existence of synthetic CDOs make it easier for lenders to provide mortgages?
Maybe, I don't know, but certainly Norris doesn't either.
One theory I've heard is staten island poker games synthetic CDOs actually provided the benefit of taming the mortgage bubble: if people couldn't get long mortgage risk via synthetic CDO they'd demand even more and worse actual mortgages.
Synthetics are zero-sum, of course, making this theory sound a bit odd, but since they were pretty much the main way of shorting mortgages, and since Paulson and others were putting on large synthetic shorts, and since short selling aids price discovery, it's probably true.
In any case that would imply that the long side of the synthetic trade, like the long side of a physical trade, was propping up the market and thus through no-arbitrage was making your mortgage cheaper.
So the point is: Abacus probably did "raise money that went.
But life is complicated, markets are complicated, and there are limits to the social utility of liquidity provision but those limits are fairly obviously not "any secondary liquidity provision is bad.
Seriously the is a good read, basically summarizing testimony that top poker players demonstrate persistent alpha, which is more than can be said for say.

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Some games are illegal gambling because they're games of chance, and some. People who run Staten Island poker rooms tend not to.


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